There was lots of crowing yesterday about a new eye exam on the Clumber spaniel bitch who got DQ’s from BOB at Crufts this year.
Now, the original paper work on the Clumber spaniel wound up online when someone managed to snap a photo of the DQ papers. The reason for the DQ should be clear to anyone familiar with the English language and the hieroglyphics that comprise the penmanship of most veterinarians.
Bilateral ectropion means that she has it both eyes.
Now her owner appeared before the media and then lied through her teeth about the reason for the dog’s DQ. She totally denied that the reason for the DQ was ectropion.
That lie wound up not spinning so well, seeing as the actual document on this dog had now become public knowledge.
So they decided to go to another vet for a second opinion yesterday.
And the result of the second opinion have been the source of a lot of misinformation online, especially on insane asylum that is the League Against Pedigree Breed Bashing, which I call the dog fancy’s “half-assed Legion of Doom.” Here’s what had them so excited yesterday:
Ah, so she didn’t have ectropion at all! That vet at crufts really screwed her over!
Well, hold your horses.
Here’s what the report actually said:
The vet didn’t actually check for ectropion!
It was an examination of the eyes, yes.
But it didn’t look for that particular condition at all.
One must remember that the owner of this dog denies that the dog has any form of ectropion at all, so she may not have even asked the vet to check for it.
It’s because of the amount of spin about this dog that one should be skeptical of what is being said about all the others.
Most of the other DQ’s due to health at this year’s Crufts have remained silent. There are lawsuits pending, so they might not want to give away all the evidence in one fell swoop.
However, the bulldog people are also making some noise.
The Bulldog Breed Council has posted the reason why Jenny (“Jenneh”) was DQ’d at Crufts:
The top winning Bulldog in question has an old eye injury, it is not visible to the naked eye in the normal manner of being examined by the judge nor is it visible without pulling the dog’s eyelid down and a light being used.
It was a knock to the eye the dog had as a puppy and as had no ill effects and the exhibitor had not given this a second thought as a reason the dog would not be classed as healthy by the independent veterinarian on the day.
It seems the Kennel Club are assuming that any mark on the cornea of any Bulldog is due to damage caused by eye disease, in this case this is simply not true, and will be taken up with the Kennel Club by representatives of the Bulldog Breed Council at a meeting on 23rd March which we hopefully will prevent situations like this re-occurring in future
In all other areas this bulldog is healthy and passed all requirements
No documentation of these claims has been provided.
So they are just claims.
Also known as rumors.
And seeing as there are so many falsehoods floating around about the Clumber spaniel, why should we accept what people are saying about the bulldog as being the gospel truth?
I am very skeptical that a vet would DQ a dog for something as minor as an old eye injury. It makes absolutely no sense why a highly qualified veterinarian, whose support for the Kennel Club and purebred dogs is exemplified in being the official health check vet at Crufts, would come up with some spurious reason to disqualify a relatively moderate-looking bulldog.
There has to be something more to the DQ than an old eye injury.
But no documentation has been provided for the public to see.
So why on earth would you believe these claims?
Even in the USA, when a dog is examined by a veterinary ophthalmologist for CERF certification, the examiner may or may not write a comment about “adnexa” — i.e., tissues surrounding the globe of the eye itself, including eyelids. Most commonly, an examiner here will note any such abnormalities — but not always. Unless some remark was made to the examiner of the Clumber as to the purpose of the exam, he/she may well have considered the dog “normal for breed”. From the one photo of the Clumber I’ve seen, the eyes appeared considerably better than many– but that’s all relative.
Isn’t ectropion a result of breeding for the droopy face? And ectropion was one of the conditions that the Crufts vets were supposed to check for? If so, then the KC is trying to tell breeders to quit breeding the more extreme feature of the droopy face which causes the ectropion and is apparently not good for the health of the dog. I don’t think an old eye injury comes into play here, unless it gets irritated because the dog can’t blink properly!
You can clearly see less droopiness in the pic of the old bulldog
It can be quite difficult for a vet to say if a corneal scar is related to conformation or not.
PL
I breed Clumbers in the US and in our standard, their eye should
Come to a V on the bottom lid…in otherwords, ectropion! Entropion
Is a problem in the breed and does cause problems. I have seen
The bitch and her eyes are fine. The Ophthalmologist’s finding were
From a much more though exam then the Crufts vet did and would
Have mentioned any lid problems, if they existed.
As far as life span, 10-12 years is the typical life span of a Clumber.
I have a 15 year old and her 13 year old son at home and I have lost
Dogs young as well.
Kool-Aid drinker. And full of shit, too.
The Kennel Club has addressed this problem with an annoucement about breeding droopy faces which result in ectropion. They are saying to stop it!
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/4213/23/5/3
Things happen at slowly in the show ring and every year the dogs get worse and show people accept it because the only dogs they see are in the show ring and that ribbon looks nice too!
Someone that likes dogs but doesn’t show can clearly see what is going on.
They can’t– because they don’t want to.
Drooping eyelids are a major fault for a working dog that has to run in thorny cover, I can tell you that.
No wonder only a select few people in North America want Clumber spaniels as hunting dogs.
In the UK, there are working line Clumbers that are more agilely built and generally have tighter eyelids.
It would probably take about one generations to breed away from the ectropion. It’s one of those features that breeders have to work constantly to get, like excessive droopy skin, super heavy coat, or brachycephalism. The natural tendancy is for the dogs to become less exaggerated over time – this is why “backyard breeder” dogs look so different. The casual breeder is more concerned with availability than conformation.
Show peke:
BYB peke:
Ditto for prick ears in collies – a good show collie has smallish, upright ears which must be taped into position. The “natural” ear is prick. The “natural” ear in the early days of the breed was wider, larger, and lower
In my opinion, the only person allowed to exaggerate the features of an animal is Walt Disney.
Besides, what the heck is it about the breed standards? Did Moses bring the down from the mountain too?
The Standards were written in stone in ancient times (ie, 100-150 years ago) and must never be changed! Except when they’re changed to reflect the style of the day, which happens every couple of decades.
Wondering: is entropion a byproduct of ectropion? If all the extra skin is dangling on the lower portion of the dog’s face, is that heavy, thick skin what makes the entropion more common? It seems to be the most common in breeds that have ectropion.
I would LOVE to hear straight from the horses mouth(the vet) what went on & why each dog was DQ’d. I would not be surpriced to hear the bulldog had an elevated pulse & heart rate & was over heating due to the breed not being able to regulate it’s temp & lacking oxygen due to narrowed & consricted airways.
I used to work at a vets & we would hate putting bulldogs under because some would be impossible to bring round & all would be left tubed till the very last minute.
I was in the vets consulting room the other day and thought they must be getting building work done as there was a loud sawing noise.
the vet came in and said can you hear that ?
yes ?
its a bulldog on the table next door.
i assume it wasnt dieing, just normal bulldog or he wouldnt have been joking about
I think your unusually bias.
I bet theres nothing worng at all with them dogs and they just done it because they wanted to get the PETA and the communists off there backs.
I think I am sick of bullshit & people not telling it how it is!
PETA has nothing to do with any of this they are complete nut jobs & even much of the general public are starting to realize this. The people really pushing for change & starting to make a diffrence are dog lovers & breeders not interested in so called animal rights but animal welfare 2 totally seperate issues completely. We don’t think animals should have rights & realize PETA’s main belief is to wipe out ALL pets & livestock. People interested in animal wefare is totally different most of us just want them to be breed with more care to gentic health & less inbreeding & breeding for type above function & temperment.
I know what comes first in many kennels where the breeder is motivated by showing they put type & extreme type in many cases above all else. This leads to narrow gene pools, poor genetic health, temperment issues & a dog no longer able to forfill the purpose they where origanally designed to do.
I am against any extreme type that leads to poorly fitting eyes, bad joints, restricted airways, unable to regulate their temp, drawfism & being so poorly constructed they can not even reproduce naturally.
How can you defend that & sleep easy.
The ostrich model!
PL
[…] received this comment yesterday on my post about the lies that are being told about the Clumber that failed i… I breed Clumbers in the US and in our standard, their eye should come to a V on the bottom […]
I’m surprised that a standardized evaluation form with more “checkable items” as with the Canine Eye Registration Foundation form wasn’t used. On that form, both entroion and ectropion are listed and may be marked (and should be) if the dog has these defects. There’s a fairly long list for globe, eyelids, third eyelid, cornea, UVEA and Lens where the vet may mark for the right or left eye or upper /lower. Ditto for cornea & cataract. There’s even a “comments’ section. I do fault some CERF vets for not bringing a chip scanner to positively identify a dog during a CERF clinic. My local vet does this for the tests (like OFA thyroid) and the CERF folk are supposed to do it but generally don’t. I’d have bought off on “injury” if the dogs in question had legitimate CERF documentation (preferably annually, but I recognize that isn’t always possible, so “every other year as a minimum). Of course, if it’s important to do it for purebreds because of health, it ought to be done for all other dogs as well. And if it’s important for Clumbers, it ought to be required for Border Collies, collies, GSDs, etc. Some issues are breed specific, but being able to see wouldn’t be one of them.
Peggy Richter
Yes the vet certificate from Zagreb is totaly worthless in this case. Nothing about eyelid and no ID.
PL
OK it says no conjunktivitis but that could easily be hidden by a adstringents for a couple of days.
PL
[…] Um. Wrong. There was no mention of the condition of the dog’s eyelids on that form. […]
[…] of the most bizarre comments I ever received on this blog appeared on a post refers to the Clumber spaniel that lost its BOB win at Crufts this year after failing its mandatory health ch…: I breed Clumbers in the US and in our standard, their eye should come to a V on the bottom […]