I’ve previously written about white markings on golden retrievers. These traits are very common in the working line goldens, and it is actually pretty easy to mistake them for over-sized Nova Scotia Duck-Tolling Retrievers.
Molson is a golden with lots of white on him who has appeared on this blog before.
Here he is with Zoe:
Zoe is a light-colored golden with no white on her. You probably wouldn’t have a hard time convincing someone that she is a pure golden. Molson obviously would have some difficulties in this regard.
The two produced a litter in which two pups had white markings.
Bella:
And Abby:
Abby does not have as much white around her nose as it appears in this photo.
A profile shot shows that she has just a little flash of white towards the end of her muzzle:
I want to thank Layne Teal for sending me these photos. I was going to post them with the other posts on goldens with white markings.
I decided against it, simply because I haven’t written on this topic for a while.
These dogs are from Canada, but these white markings pop up in virtually all North American field lines.
Keep in mind that golden retrievers are technically not supposed to have any white on them, but two of the breed’s ancestors, the old Irish setter and the St. John’s water dog, did have limited white markings on their bodies.
***
After much thought, I have decided to go along with Mark Derr’s assertion that the St. John’s water dog was a cur breed. It was a “water cur.”
As I’ve written before, a cur is not a mongrel. A cur is a multipurpose working dog of which there are many different strains in the Western and Southern US. The local cur for my area is called the mountain cur, and it is used mostly as a varmint dog. They are used on squirrels and groundhogs, but some are also excellent coonhounds. Some may have been used to herd cattle here, usually if they have had a bit of collie-type crossed in.
The St. John’s water dog hauled nets and baited lines, retrieved shot birds, tracked wounded game, and hauled sleds and carts. Some were even used to retrieve seals that were shot from boats. One assumes that the seals were dead when the dogs were sent for them, for a big seal can be more than a match for any dog. I would hate to be the dog sent after a wounded seal in rough seas.
I was wondering about the name “Molson” on a golden. It became clear when you said the dogs were in Canada. There used to be a beer called Golden…Molson Golden.
If a golden has white on them, would they still be considered a “purebreed”?
Yes. They would be considered purebred, simply because many of the early dogs had white on them. In the field lines, this is common, just as it is in field line Irish setters. In show dogs, it is unacceptable. Only a few white hairs on the chest are allowed.
I remember when they used to sell Molson around here as a fancy imported beer.
Thank you retrieverman for adding my Photos of Abby, Bella, Zoe and Molson. One correction though, All the puppies from Abby’s litter had white on them.There were 8 or more, I have a copy of photos of the litter but didn’t send it as I thought it was taken from too far a distance. I would love to see photos of all the dogs and would be thrilled if we had an opportunity to photo them all together. It probably wouldn’t happen as they are spread out all over. I will let Zoes owner know of your article and maybe he can supply more photos or information.
One of the strange things about white marks on goldens is that some of them lose their white markings at they mature– especially blazes and white spots on the chest.
Perhaps its just me…. but I’ve recently met someone who I thought was walking a Golden Retriever only for them to tell me their dog is actually a full blooded Hovawart and is mistaken for a Golden all the time. It was marked very similar to Molson. For two breeds to look so strikingly similar down to the proportions and the coloration?….???? Just struck me as interesting. Reminds me of the time you put up some pics of young Tollers that resembled Goldens.
Hovawarts aren’t much like golden retrievers, except for their appearance.
They aren’t just similar, they are strikingly similar in appearance.
According to some of the sites I’ve visited they are a working dog used for many different tasks. Great Family pets and companions with a guarding instinct.
But like I said, strikingly similar to Goldens of the field bred type.
Hi there,
I also have a Golden Retriever who has lots of white on her. She also has a split nose. I have a blog is not exclusively about her, but it covers mostly her… The DNA test results on her just came back today and I posted a blog about it here: http://crickitty.blogspot.com/2010/01/codys-dna-results.html So, Cody may look like she’s not, but she’s definitely a Golden. I know her pedegree back about 4 generations, and I know that she was born in Tennessee. Other than that, I’m not too sure about anything else about where her white may have come from, or whether any other of her relatives had it.
Melissa (AKA crickitty).
Gosh, your dog really does have white on her!
She does have setter features, which are very common in goldens from working lines.
White markings have been in the breed since the beginning. They come from the red setters (which were originally red and white– the Irish red and white setter still exists and it looks a lot more like retriever) and the St. John’s water dog of Newfoundland, which looked like a Labrador cross: https://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/a-golden-retriever-with-lots-of-white-on-it/
I was expecting one of your animals to be named Watson.
IMHO, crick was the brains of that pair, so he’s the one that gets the nod… can’t stand watson, actually, so the name is hardly ever spoken here (lol).
That’s really interesting about the Setter and St. John’s water dog. Cody really does look a lot like an Irish setter–she’s slim and tall like they are. She’s a little too gangly to be called graceful yet, but she’s only 11mo old: She’ll get there.
Thanks for the blog postings about the white Goldens–it makes it easier to convince other people Cody truly is a Golden when I can show other examples. :)
Hi there!!
I commented on the other article (blog) with my Molson in it….to answer a quick silly question we named Molson for the simple fact that we couldn’t agree on anything else!! haha…so my husband and I were both having a beer and decided hey, Molson works!! :)
I would just like to say that anyone who wants to ask my any more questions or send pictures etc about Molson please don’t hesitate to contact me directly, and if you have pictures of the one little Molson sired please also don’t hesitate to send pictures so my husband and I can see!
Thanks
Kate
feistychickie@hotmail.com
I have to admit, if these dogs are throwbacks to their ancestory, how come more do not exist? It seems to be that they are exceptionally rare. Yes, there are some white markings on some of the field lines- however none are as “white” as from this litter.
Also, with all the selective breeding of golden retrievers for over a hundred years, how would it even be possible for the so called recessive gene to still be present? I know with horses there are acceptable sires from other breeds that can be brought into a bloodline to enhance certain characteristics and the resulting foal can still be registered..does this happen with dogs?
I watched a documentary on the DNA testing of dogs through kits you can obtain online. It was found that they were completely unreliable and the only good test is through a vet. (they tested the same dog with each company and each one came back with completely different results).
I have always thought it was sketchy that none of these dogs are registered. In talking to a couple golden breeders- they say that the dogs if from registered stock have white they can be registered- they just can’t be shown. Why are these dogs not registered?
Just curious :)
Well one of those DNA tests said this dog was a doberman.
I have seen a lot of white on field line dogs. In one of our litters– which were all field line– we had blazes and white feet on a few puppies. The dam had a white tail tip.
She was pure.
She didn’t look like a show dog, but she was pure.
I just wanted to comment that people who want a purebred that fits the AKC or CKC standard just doesn’t understand that breeders throughout the beginning of each breed bred for what they considered desireable. It may have been for the show ring or for field work. The breeders of dogs for field work focused on breeding for athletic traits and not to fit the standard. So it would seem natural that the recessive gene was carried down through the working type of golden retrievers. My dog Abby still has the white “arrow” on her head and so does Bella. Abby’s paws are cream now and they may blend as she gets older.
If my Abby were lost or stolen I’d be more likely to get her back because of her unique marks.
If a black child is born to two white parents it doesn’t mean it was a bad “breeding” it just means that genes from past genrations of a black family member have come forward.
She is not now and never will be a bad breeding.
Hi, I just got a purebreed golden puppy… or so they told me. He has white marks and I haven´t seen the parents. Could someone please tell me if it is a golden retriever just by looking at his picture? I know it is imposible to tell for sure but I´m just looking for an opinion of someone…well more experienced that I am….Please, it would mean a lot!!!
I dont know where to upload the picture but if someone gives me his o her e-mail adress….and by this i´m hoping for retrieverman……i´d be happy to send you pictures.
THANKS
Send the photos along.
retreiverman1 (at) yahoo.com
I just send you some photos to retrieverman1@yahoo.com
I hope I got the address right… otherwise pleeease let me know
Purebreds use to have a great deal of variation. Within at least the popular breeds, there were many types, one type being the show variety.
The other types within a breed might have one or two points that were different from the show type – the ears might be too low set or half perk up, or the tail carriage might be all wrong, or the coat would be off, or the color would be wrong.
But the dogs still had papers, and produced pppered puppies. It wasn’t a fraud, dog breeds didn’t start out with dogs that were so inbred and so much alike that they almost look like a twin to all the others of their breed.
But when a kennel club ran ads for breeders, and those breeders pushed non-show breeders to spay/neutered their dogs, what happened was, instead of each female dog having one litter, most female dogs never had a litter, while home-puppymills breed the same female each heat.
AKA “Spay YOUR dog, so mine can have 10 litters to sell”.
And male dogs? There use to be an expression “Every dog has his day.” It was often used to mean sex. That eventially every dog would father a litter. No matter if he couldn’t out fight any other dog, someday, an owner of an in season female, would be looking outside a window as he came around, and the owner would choose him and let her female out so he could father puppies.
If you look at some of the older dog books with black and white photos, or some of the illistrated breed standards, you find things where they say things like:
the hair should be long, the tail well ‘feathered’, or they might say the ears should stand up or something like that. And some of the books will even have a page with drawings showing how the ears and tail of that breed SHOULD look in a show dog.
A novice might look at the drawings and say: “Why are they writing this? Every dog of this breed has ears and tails like that?”
And that’s true now, but at one time, it was not. The non-show type purebreds usually had at least one thing different from the show type of their breed.
Now, most of the purebred non-show types have been fixed, died of old age, and their types gone from the gene pool.
I recently bred a purebred golden with a purebred Englisg cream golden. All the puppies are beautiful but one has a dark brown triangular marking on its head. Is this a result of the mixing of english cream and regular goldens?
It can be.
The red to yellow coloration often colors the coat in different ways.
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if that particular pup didn’t become normal gold in color.
Generally, they are born so much lighter than they will become as adults. Any hair on them that is darker usually suggests that they are going to eventually become that color as they mature.
Recently rescued this little girl. We think she is probably the field line that you are talking about. She has 3 tiny white paws and a white chest patch.
Our other Golden Retriever, who came with papers, also has a white patch.
I love your blog, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Sorry, I will try to post these picture links again:
Sophie and her chest patch:
Sophie and Jack with one of her 3 paw tips showing:
Jack the papered purebred with chest patch:
Hope these make it through this time. Again, love the blog – Julie
We have a litter of 10 puppies from out two Goldens, and one of the female puppies has white tips on her feet(only two)! Is this normal…there was NO way another dog got to her because of the fencing and they are only allowed out on leaches! Any explanations would be great!
Very normal, actually.
I remember one puppy from one of our litters with white-tipped toes.
Here’s an adult with a white blaze:
Thank you!