A common misconception that continually gets spread is that domestic dogs were created through inbreeding wolves and that the different specialized breeds and types were created through inbreeding.
There is almost no evidence for either assertion.
The first assertion is easily falsified. Domestic dogs retained most of the wolf’s genetic diversity through domestication– in the neighborhood of 95 percent. Wolves are a very genetically diverse species, so dogs, as a population, really do have a lot of genetic diversity for a domestic animal.
Further, there is no evidence that these specialized dogs were created through inbreeding.
Retrievers, for example, were always celebrated as being crossbred dogs. That’s right. For most of their history, different dog breeds were bred together to create retrievers of various types. It’s just the retrievers that derived mostly from the St. John’s water dogs that became the most celebrated and “improved” into modern breeds. Prior to modern breed formation, retrievers were bred through crosses in this fashion. Many retrievers had collie, St. John’s and Large Newfoundland, setter, and land and water spaniel ancestry, and others even had terrier and greyhound in them.
All they selected for was for dogs that would carry things in their mouths. And you can get that from a wide variety of dogs.
Now, retrievers are modern working dogs. Their exact function really didn’t become widely necessary until shotguns were invented. Before that, dogs like poodles and barbets were used for this purpose– and they were were often employed to retrieve shot arrows that missed their marks.
Earlier dog types were created, but they were created as landraces. One of the oldest landraces is the tazi family of sighthounds. These dogs were among the earliest specialized dogs to have formed from the wolf. They are a very diverse lot. Some are shaggy. Some are smooth. Some are merely feathered. But they are pretty genetically diverse as a landrace, and they are found from North Africa across the Middle East to China. In Asia, they are found from Siberia to India.
Because these dogs are pretty diverse, we know that they likely weren’t created by inbreeding. In fact, some regional variants have mtDNA squences that they share with local pariah dogs. The azawakh has mtDNA sequences that are similar to African village dogs, while Israeli salukis sometimes have mtDNA sequences in common with the Canaan dog.
So as this type evolved from the wolf, it likely incorporated genes from less specialized dogs. That’s not a closed registry system at all.
However, these dogs were selectively bred from genetically diverse stock over a long period of time.
This is very similar to the domestication process that Mark Derr describes in How the Dog Became the Dog. Over tens of thousands of years, wolves and people began to affiliate with each other. This happened over a broad swathe of Eurasia. Over time, these wolves began to evolve into dogs. During the last glacial maximum, Derr contends that the first phenotypically distinct domestic dogs appeared, largely because they were suffering from lack of prey for both humans and their socialized wolves to hunt. These dog features were not created through intense inbreeding, though the eventual development of the small dogs at the end of the Pleistocene may have been maintained by inbreeding.
At their founding, dogs were, by and large, genetically diverse.
This diversity was maintained in two ways.
Prior to the development of pastoralism, wolves were largely tolerated near human camps. Wild wolves and dogs exchanged genes quite a bit.
And humans were movers. In the days of the hunter-gatherers, dogs would always be on the move. If dogs are moving all the time, so are their genes. So there would always been a gene flow across Eurasia– and this would prevent any one population of dogs from becoming inbred.
Now, this is the exact opposite of what some people think. They think all of these dog breeds developed in complete isolation, and they regularly inbred to keep things going.
Actually, that wasn’t true even after the rise of agriculture around 10,000 years ago.
Once agriculture got started, people could remain in one place all the time, so it could be possible that people would start to become isolated– and their dogs would become inbred.
However, there were two aspects that always prevented this from happening.
One of these is trade. Trade has been a big thing even before humans began living in agricultural settlements. The earliest evidence of long-distance trade dates to as early as 150,000 years ago, and when settlement allowed people to produce more advanced goods, they were very interested in spreading it as far as possible.
Dogs had to have gone along with these early trading forays, leading to a continued gene flow.
Further, although most agriculturalists were sedentary, pastoralists never were.
Pastoralists were always following herds and flocks up and down mountains to access the best grazing, and in other areas, they moved their stock to better watering places from areas experiencing drought or dry seasons.
Everyone knows that dogs were and still are a vital asset to any pastoralist. They can alert the pastoralist to predators, and if the dogs are big enough, they can even kill them. They also can run off rustlers and bandits, and they can be used to manage the flocks and track down strays.
But because pastoralists are always moving, so are their dogs. And as their dogs move, they spread their genes.
One of the very good parts of Raymond Coppinger’s book is that he recognizes how important this movement of humans across these routes every year is very important to the story of the domestic dog. This movement is called “Transhumance,” and it has likely had a major role in maintaining genetic diversity in domestic dogs than we might have realized. Dogs traveling with pastoralists from village to village were mating with dogs belonging to villagers, and in this way, local genetic diversity was maintained.
The thing that actually created all the inbreeding in domestic dogs is the development of modern breeds.
Modern breeds that exist within a defined closed registry system are very new. They have only appeared in the past two hundred years– most in the last 150.
In this system, there was a delusion that one could continually improve upon the types and landraces by separating them from other dog stocks and then tightly breeding upon these dogs to set type. This exact same method was tried on cattle, sheep, and horses– and then fancy show pigeons. Results were quite substantial in those species, which were now much more productive, and the pigeons became more and more esoterically bizarre– the exact result the early pigeon fancy wanted!
In the early days, there were successes.
But over time, this sort of very close breeding and breeding within closed registry systems have had a deleterious effect upon domestic dogs. Dogs within these breeds have lost 30 percent of their genetic diversity over the past two centuries.
Genetic diseases are encountered much more commonly in dog breeds than in almost all other organisms, though the notorious inbred factory farm turkeys are definitely more diseased in this fashion.
Many dog breeders exist under the delusion that they can breed out all the diseases their breed possesses. Many of these diseases are simple recessives, so all you’d have to do is inbreed to expose the disease and then cull. That works to a point.
But usually what happens is they select out a disease is they often wind up doubling down on something else.
Not all diseases are simple recessives either. In fact, it has yet to be proven to me that the majority of them are. Many are the result of several genes which are inherited in different ways, and it is very hard to selectively breed them out of a population.
The other problem is that the MHC haplotypes within any inbred population are very easily lost or become very homozygous rapidly. You cannot see MHC haplotypes, but if you breed them out and the dogs have more and more homozygous haplotypes, you will have a compromised immune system on your hands.
So you might breed out the easily defined genetic diseases, and in the end, you’ll wind up with dogs that are infertile or dying of autoimmune diseases– neither of which is uncommon in many dog breeds.
For tens of thousands of years, people have bred from genetically diverse dogs.
Now we’re seeing the full consequences of squandering genetic diversity in the name of delusion.
Diversity is the solution to so many problems in domestic dogs.
Unfortunately, the very notion of diversity conflicts with the long held shibboleths and bromides that underpin the dog fancy that has developed in the past two centuries.
Delusion is dangerous because it is more than a lie. It is a lie that the liar himself doesn’t know is untrue.
And to fight off the pesky truth, the deluded grabs at straws to excuse his delusions and make them true.
This, folks, is about 80 percent of what is written about dogs in the modern era.
Excusing and dismissing facts to hold onto delusion.








Reblogged this on A Bitter CynoAnarchist Rages On.
“In the days of the hunter-gatherers, dogs would always be on the move. If dogs are moving all the time, so are their genes. So there would always been a gene flow across Eurasia– and this would prevent any one population of dogs from becoming inbred.”
“Pastoralists were always following herds and flocks up and down mountains to access the best grazing, and in other areas, they moved their stock to better watering places from areas experiencing drought or dry seasons.
Everyone knows that dogs were and still are a vital asset to any pastoralist. They can alert the pastoralist to predators, and if the dogs are big enough, they can even kill them. They also can run off rustlers and bandits, and they can be used to manage the flocks and track down strays.
But because pastoralists are always moving, so are their dogs. And as their dogs move, they spread their genes.”
I agree with this, as this is how the Mastiff prototype was created. However, I’d futher this point with the fact that the Mastiff spread mainly by the nomadic pastorialist that also plundered and conqured. In fact, as I have tried to explain many times, the breed we call Old White English is not an old breed, and in fact, we can only trace this breed type in South USA to the Spanish Conqests and the various amalgamations of latter stock inported. For example, we know that King Philip II imported English Mastiff or Bandog stock into Spain and her colonies from 1556 to 1649 which in Cuba gave rise in part to the Cuban Mastiff. Let us look now at the Cuban Mastiff as described by Mr Smith of England….
“Those we have seen were of a rusty wolf-color. The common Spanish cattle dog, of America is evidently crossed with this breed.”
Mr Smith, 1839
But, are we to think that England did not inport from Spain from 1556 to 1649? For the very so-called breed – the English Bulldog – did not even exist untill its first mention in 1630.
“The common Spanish cattle dog, of America,” (Alano) is what gave rise to the Bulldogs found in South USA. The Alano decends from the nomadic pastorialists of Central Asia known in history as the Alans and are now known in this area as the Ossations.
As far as isolation and improvement by inbreeding, I’d have to disagree on this point. Simply look at the size of our cattle today, such as the Texas Longhorn which decend from the early Criollo cattle of Spain. Through genetics we are struggling to feed our very over world populations.
As for retivers, are we to suppose the Labradoodle is healthier and an improved “Working Dog,” than its pure bred counterparts?
Actually, the Labradoodle is, but the really good cross in terms of health and working behavior is the goldador, golden retriever and Labrador cross.
These crosses, if chosen from good working lines on both side, wind up being healthier dogs on average and are better working dogs for whatever purpose you want.
Virtually all guide dog and assistance dog organizations use goldadors and doodles for a reason. They are good working dogs.
What I find interesting in all of these discussions, you never address the issue with the immune system. Unless they are intentionally breeding for homozygous and diverse MHC/DLA haplotypes, the immune system will suffer. This is what modern science says, not some dog breeding book from the 1970′s.
If you seek examples of success in a breeding program based on modern science, Seeing Eye Inc. and Guide Dogs for the Blind have done extremely well, using Estimated Breeding Values as one tool.
It is, well, I’m surprized. I’ll take your word for it, as you are into the retrivers. But, please take my word for this, the breed we call Old White English is not very old at all and is maintained by pure breeding and not by crossbreeding. Sure, outcrosses are used on occassion, but such thinking of a lack of purity in our old farm Bulldogs of South USA has turned the American Bulldog into a Boar – Lurcher and no longer is even a cattle dog. Moreover, the list of diseases, including NCL, in this breed are far more than the original stock still used by the common farmer.
“Hence, we find, that in several European languages, this tribe is confounded with the mastiff called Alan and Alano, because that people may have reared a remarkable breed of them. The dogs of this group are possessed of less sagacity than the former; they are much less docile, have considerable courage, are watchful and noisy and therefore are chiefly entrusted with the care of cattle, the property of farms, and of the humbler classes, that they are the chief parents of the mongrel dog of the west.” Smith 1839
“care of cattle, the property of farms, and of the humbler classes”
Today, so many claim to be breeding the Mastiff or Bandog or Bulldog, but which are in “care of cattle, the property of farms, and of the humbler classes”? When in contact with Spanish Alano breeders, they too take a strong stand on purity.
Yeah but those Alano breeders don’t have pedigrees that far back. No dog pedigree does.
And the alano of the Conquistadors was very different from the alano of Goya.
One does not need a ped to prove purity. In fact, as a breeder, I can tell you that peds are only as good as the person that wrote them. Many are false. I don’t know of the Alanos of Goya, but you might try those of SEFCA. Don’t be surprized to find many of them are very close to our White English. As for the APBT, the UKC standard calls for a “Brick-Like” head which is enlongated like the Sebuso of the CKC, and the real Spanish Alano. The English Staff calls for a short head. Despite importation of the so-called Bull-Terrier type Staff of England, the APBT shows clearly that of the basic Alano/Lebrel origin. The bull-baiting dogs of England – used to pin the bulls, most likely derived from intercrosses of the Staghound/Bulhound used to catch wild cattle which derived from the German bull-biter developed after the Fall of Rome. The Spanish Alano of which Mark Derr correctly calls a Wolfhound has since ancient times been used to defend cattle from the wolf and used in warfare. This is what differs in our White English as the original Alaunt type from the Scott type AB used as a Boar lurcher. The White English are actually known to bite and rebite and are not preffered on the hunt. In fighting packs of feral dogs (many at one time) that has long replaced the wolf in South USA, the bite and rebite is devestating. These Bulldogs were produced by Pastoralists from various imports over many centuries.
Here is another view point of the development of the APBT. Note the Alano is now considered extint by many, but how can a type of dog be extint?
http://oldschoolreds.com/page10.php
Actually, you do need pedigrees.
In fact, you need more than that.
People make up crap all the time.
There are lots of dogs that were crossed in clandestinely and then registered as pure– this happens more often than you’d think with the AKC and other large registries.
People have tried to breed dogs like this, and virtually every time they’ve done it, they’ve failed miserably. Even after you’re done purging the bad recessives, you’re still not immune (no pun intended) from the problems associated with inbreeding depressions. Inbreeding depression issues cannot be bred out. They can only be controlled by stopping inbreeding.
Please read this to see what happens when you inbreed dogs this closely:
http://rufflyspeaking.net/blog/puppy-vigor/
Dogs are not cheetahs. They have not evolved that kind of inbreeding tolerance.
Explain to me something?
How do you know the Spanish dogs were all that healthy?
Spanish at the time of the conquest were using their dogs to commit crimes against humanity that would have made Hitler or Milosevic cringe. I don’t think they cared too much if they were healthy.
I’ve not seen any genetic studies on pit bulls, but I seriously doubt that they are primarily Spanish in origin. My guess is they are a bit more terrier than bull in their background.
Further, yes, the fighting pit bull people did inbreed.
But I’d sooner take lectures from Kent Hovind on tax law than I would take lectures from someone like Don Mayfield, who was essentially dog fighting scum and not a very well educated man at all. Try reading his stuff. It will hurt your eyes, and it will make you dumber for having done so.
And all of these are moot points. None of these people had any idea about the complex nature of genes or even heredity. I doubt that Mayfield had ever heard of Gregor Mendel or DNA, and the conquistadors lived before these ideas were ever revealed.
This is a really good case of the blind leading the blind.
Ray Lane said “Moreover, the list of diseases, including NCL, in this breed are far more than the original stock still used by the common farmer.”
This is precisely right, the reason being that the ones kept by the farmers don’t exist in a closed breeding program. The landraces–and most old breeds started as landraces–have more genetic diversity and thus are healthier and live longer than their registered counterparts. The health of the breed–whichever breed it is–should be the first consideration of any breeder; followed by compatibility w/ humans and other domesticated animals; and then the purpose for which they were bred. Color, stance in the show ring, length or texture of coat, set of the ears or muzzle, etc., etc., are all things which if considered at all, should be way down the list. When I see some of the things that are done in the name of breed standards, such as w/ the Neapolitan Mastiff, it literally makes me feel homicidal.
The misconception is based on a lack of facts, which is more fantisy than theroy. The APBT has extensivly been inbreed, is very healthy and very strong!
“Countless centuries have been involved in developing the APBT into a fighting machine beyond comparison. And, those persons who talk of other breeds surpassing him in this respect are mearly displaying their own ignorance.”
Stratton, 1976
As soon as someone actually produces a breed or Landrace to out fight the Pure Bred APBT that decends from the various strains of Fighting Dogs of various countries, starting with the Spanish Conquests, which BTW, the Alano/Lebrel cross like Becerrillo and Bruno was documented as early as the 12th century and were not some f1 cross, than everyone only has fantisy. Don’t write about it – Do It!!! Many have tried and failed. Besides the Great Pyreenes, the APBT is the common choice of Pastoralits in South USA.
Actually, it’s not that healthy.
http://pitbullregistry.com/Inbreeding.htm
“The misconception is based on a lack of facts, which is more fantisy than theroy. The APBT has extensivly been inbreed, is very healthy and very strong!”
Here’s a question for you, Ray. Say you have an inbred strain that you’ve been developing for 30 years, inbred on the greatest dog you ever had, a real cracker. Your entire reputation has been built on this line, your standing in whatever community you’re a part of depends in it. But suddenly your bitches start having problems with fertility and fecundity. They don’t conceive. When they do conceive, the litters are small and the pups aren’t hardy. What do you do, Ray?
a) Outcross publicly. Watch your fertility problems vanish while your reputation goes down the toilet, followed by your ego.
b) Outcross clandestinely, saving both your ego and your breeding program.
“Countless centuries have been involved in developing the APBT into a fighting machine beyond comparison. And, those persons who talk of other breeds surpassing him in this respect are mearly displaying their own ignorance.”
Stratton, 1976″
You can believe that if you like. Me, I’ve found that the more research I do, the more full of shit most of the founding breeders become. That ego thing, again, no doubt.
“As soon as someone actually produces a breed or Landrace to out fight the Pure Bred APBT that decends from the various strains of Fighting Dogs of various countries, starting with the Spanish Conquests, which BTW, the Alano/Lebrel cross like Becerrillo and Bruno was documented as early as the 12th century and were not some f1 cross, than everyone only has fantisy. Don’t write about it – Do It!!! Many have tried and failed. Besides the Great Pyreenes, the APBT is the common choice of Pastoralits in South USA.”
One: dog aggression and the other traits that are associated with fighting dogs are not magic. They are like any other trait, you can breed for them, or you can not breed for them and risk losing them. You do not have to inbreed to fix traits, nor to maintain them, as evidenced by the history of the dog, which is a history of types, not breeds.
Two: No one here is saying anything about f1 crosses. If you are outcrossing to add vigor to your line, whether it is to another breed or to another line in the same breed, you will need to backcross back into the original line to return to same level of performance, unless you are crossing to a very similar dog of the same type of function. This is very common knowledge, Ray, even included in the whelping books you like so much. The fact that you don’t seem to understand this is…interesting.
I will add that I am pretty familiar with mixed breed coursing dogs, and the breeder will often throw anything that seems interesting into the mix. Some have their favorite combination (3/4 greyhound, 1/4 collie, for example) and maintain very long pedigrees of consistently performing dogs by repeating the same combinations over and over. Some have very random sorts of dogs indeed, and I have seen some really strange crosses that perform perfectly well.
Your repeated insistence that a trait must be set and maintained by inbreeding is false, Ray. There are way too many dogs in the world that prove it false.
>>>>>>>Many retrievers had collie, St. John’s and Large Newfoundland, setter, and land and water spaniel ancestry, and others even had terrier and greyhound in them >>>>>>>>>>>
Don’t forget bulldogs; for ex. E. Chappell writes (pub. in 1818), that the fishermen’s dogs were often crossed with the english Bulldog to make it better (or “fierce”) guard.
See:
http://books.google.fi/books?id=Xb4NAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA143&dq=Labrador+bull-dog&hl=fi&sa=X&ei=S8Q-T-H3M4SF4gTokuihCA&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Labrador%20bull-dog&f=false)
This is not the only old source I have, there are actually few to prove that original retrievers had bulldog blood, but which is now gone, I think, by the fast ‘n sick “dog milling” .
All you have to do is to take a look at the pictures of the Retrievers of yester-day, to see that they were more various then. Now they all seem to come from ” the same tooth paste tube “, which they actually almost do.
There is really no way to tell if dogs were “healthier” before institution of the registry system. The lifespan of so many dogs in the 19th century and earlier, was extremely short– many pups simply did not survive to maturity (often unwanted and deliberately destroyed), and with the commonness of contagious diseases (no vaccines) a high percentage of dogs died long before they might have otherwise. Distemper epidemics often wiped out whole kennels. While there were no radiographs (and precious little of any sort of veterinary attention) to diagnose hip dysplasia, no exams for eye or cardiac problems, or diagnosis of epilepsy, there certainly are many references to “rheumatism”, blindness, “fits” and :”hysteria” (sometimes due to inadequate diet) and other quite possibly genetically transmitted problems.
We today are more aware of these problems, and have far better means of detecting, reporting, and assessing them then was possible even in the first half of the 20th century. All of which undoubtly contributes to the impression of an increase in such problems. And then of course there is the simple increase in the numbers of dogs: more dogs, more problems.